Re: BIP39 Extension for Manual Seed Phrase Creation

May 24 - May 25, 2025

  • The dialogue opens with Eric discussing the complexities and challenges associated with Bitcoin self-custody, highlighting the difficulties even technically adept individuals face with concepts like binary math and checksums.

He notes that the reliance on what he terms "black box" solutions—tools whose internal workings are opaque to the user—poses a dilemma in ensuring trustless operation. This situation underscores a broader question about Bitcoin's accessibility: is it meant only for those with technical expertise, or can it be made approachable for the average person?

Eric then presents an idea for a UEFI application designed to generate a seed phrase from entropy input, aiming to make the process more accessible without compromising on security. He outlines the current methods of seed generation, which range from using verifiable open-source tools (white box) to relying on unverifiable ones (black box), as well as more complex procedures involving non-standard entropy import and cross-checking between tools. He suggests that standardizing the format for encoding entropy could simplify these processes, making self-custody more attainable for non-experts.

In a further exploration of the technical aspects, Eric touches upon the use of coin flips for entropy generation, advocating for Von Neumann skew correction to enhance randomness. He explains the necessity of subsequent steps like SHA256 hashing to generate a checksum word, followed by SHA512 HMAC, EC point multiplication, and other operations for deriving child keys and addresses. These steps, while crucial, are deemed too complex for manual execution, indicating the need for automated tools.

Eric also mentions his existing work on a bootable UEFI application that incorporates these principles, suggesting its potential reimplementation as part of a larger project. He asserts that modifying the existing specification for mnemonic generation is unnecessary, emphasizing instead the importance of educating users on the process and the available tools. Additionally, he discusses alternatives like Electrum's Seed Version System and wallet descriptors as means to manage non-entropy metadata, advocating for user education over attempts to obscure critical information.

This exchange encapsulates a nuanced debate within the Bitcoin development community regarding the balance between security, transparency, and user-friendliness in cryptographic tools and practices. While recognizing the value of established protocols and specifications, it calls attention to the ongoing need for innovation and clarity in making digital asset self-custody both secure and accessible to a wider audience.

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